Show Notes

If you are a therapist, you are probably no stranger to PESI courses.

If you’re anything like me, you likely have taken several PESI courses for continuing education and professional development. However, for Canadian therapists, if you haven’t already heard, PESI Canada has been established providing your favorite PESI courses, but in Canadian dollar.

Super exciting.

And in today’s episode, I’m sitting down with clinical director of PESI Canada, Gerry Greco, who will be sharing some myth busters about PESI Canada certifications.

Hi Gerry. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you here today.

Gerry:  Hi Kayla. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really happy to be here today.

Kayla: Gerry, please introduce yourself, where you’re from, and tell us a little bit about you and your position at PESI Canada.

Gerry: So, as you mentioned, I’m the Clinical Director of PESI Canada, and I’m also a registered psychotherapist in the province of Ontario.

I was fortunate enough to join PESI right before PESI Canada was even created. So that was one of my main projects, when I was coming on. And what we knew about PESI in general is we have the luxury of being just north of the border of the United States, and PESI is headquartered in the US.

And what we knew is that there was many, many Canadian therapists accessing PESI trainings already. So, what we set out to challenge ourselves with was to offer PESI in Canadian dollars and with Canadian content that speaks to the realities of some of the challenges that therapists and their clients face today.

So, as I mentioned, I’m a registered psychotherapist. I’ve had the luxury of being able to work in many different places in Canada. So, I started my career in downtown Toronto. I moved to Vancouver; I moved to Montreal. That’s where I am today. In Ottawa. So, I’ve really been able to, meet with other therapists and really get a sense of what some of the challenges are there, what are some of the similarities. And in fact, I would say the similarities usually outweigh the different challenges that people face.

And the thing that I love the most about wherever you are in Canada. Is that therapists just want to help their clients. I know that sounds obvious, but it’s just really coming from a genuine place and a place of care and wanting to do good.

So, when I joined PESI Canada. Those spoke to those same values because, really about providing continuous education that’s about giving the capacity for therapists to then go out and help their clients. So, I felt really good joining this organization because it was a way for me to still make an impact without maybe having some of those direct client encounters.

Kayla: As PESI Canada is new, a common question asked by therapists quite often actually, is if PESI Canada is affiliated with PESI US. So, is it? And can you tell us a little bit about PEs Canada and kind of how it started?

Gerry: Absolutely. And I think this is a very relevant question in today’s, maybe I will just say geopolitical climate, where being Canadian is never been more important than it is today and feeling that national pride.

So yes, absolutely. PESI Canada is very much affiliated with PESI Inc. Which is located in the United States. Something that I will mention is that PESI made the decision to be a nonprofit. And for me, this again, was one of those key values that really spoke to me as I was creating PESI Canada. So, what that means is we’re very mission focused and our mission simply put is about connecting knowledge with need.

PESI Canada we often will use some of the same programs that PESI US is using. We’ll often use some of the same speakers. We have the same platform. So, you know, the technology services come from PESI Inc.

But what really distinguishes us, I would say is that PESI Canada is really focused on being bilingual, so being able to offer our content in both French and English. Being able to be priced in Canadian dollars, so you really don’t have to worry about that conversion, which kind of happens on your credit card after you check out.

And lastly, it’s about finding those Canadian speakers. It’s about finding folks who are located here who can really, yeah, as I mentioned, speak to the realities of what it means to be a therapist in Canada.

And maybe I’ll also mention one thing is that we are actually accredited by many of the Canadian associations, which I can talk about a bit later. But it was important for us to be able to get that stamp of approval from some of the big Canadian players.

Kayla: So, before we dive into the MythBusters, can you explain what certifications are? In other words, what’s the difference between say, a certification and a training or workshop?

Gerry: Absolutely. I think that’s a really important distinction to make. And I’ll start with just describing, what is a training, what is a workshop? What is some of these webinars. So different formats of training. What are they? So, these are really opportunities to build your skills. So, it’s learning something new. It’s learning the most up-to-date information. It’s about earning those continuing education credits or continuing professional development credits that many of us are required to do.

But a certification goes further than that. So, it shows that you’ve completed structured courses of study, met specific requirements, and in many cases you’ve actually had to pass an assessment or a test to validate that you’ve learned this information. And then also I would say very important to us as therapists is showing that you’re registered with a regulatory body. So, this is key to ensuring that you possess sort of those base competencies, those base skills required to enter into the profession.

While attending a workshop is valuable, it doesn’t necessarily tell others what you’ve mastered, whereas a certification signals to your clients or colleagues that you’ve gone beyond just attending a course. It gives credibility to the professional. It builds trust with the public because it shows that you’ve been measured against really clear and established standards.

Kayla: You know, that’s really helpful to kind of identify the nuance differences between a training and a certification. So now let’s discuss some of the myths that I know I’ve seen on social media. You know, just people in my communities kind of talking specifically about PESI Canada certifications.

So, myth one. And you already kind of touched on this, but we’ll get you to elaborate. PESI Canada trainings or certifications are not accredited by Canadian therapist regulatory colleges. This is false, correct?

Gerry: This is a common myth and the answer is it’s not quite that simple. So maybe what I’ll do is, I’ll start off just explaining what the certification process is like. In relation to PESI Canada. PESI has partnered, it’s been about 15 years, I believe. Has partnered with an organization called Evergreen Certification. So Evergreen is part of the PESI family, if you will, but they’re their standalone organization. So, they have their own website, they have their own board. They have their own processes, et cetera.

But we’re intricately linked in that anytime PESI Canada or PESI US for example, publishes a new course, Evergreen has the ability to see that course and say, you know what? This fits really well with this certification. So, they’re like hot off the press. How can we help integrate this knowledge into one of our certifications? And then it goes through their, they have a board of advisors, a panel of experts that review all this and make sure that it’s very scientifically sound. But we have that really close, intimate relationship. We’re able to, sort of stay on top of what is emerging for each of these organizations. So Evergreen is the certification body that really looks after all of the applications. It reviews all of the documents that are submitted, make sure that they complete the courses and they set the standards.

PESI is really the producer of the content, so we are the one that put on the workshops, the webinars, the courses, et cetera.

Getting back to your question, maybe starting with certification is not the same as licensure or registration with a regulatory body, for example, or an order, depending on what you call it in your local jurisdiction. So only those regulatory bodies can determine whether or not a professional is competent to practice. So, whether or not they have those base skills to be able to call themselves a counselor or a psychotherapist, a therapist, whatever it may be. They’re the ones that are really good at reviewing transcripts, reviewing degrees reviewing supervision, hours, setting standards of practice. So that is really their wheelhouse and we will never do it as better as they can do it.

So that’s really why we require our professionals who wish to get certification to be licensed, to be regulated under one of those bodies because then it tells us that they have the competency to practice.

What I can say about just the accreditation process in general is that many of PESI’s courses and webinars and digital seminars are approved by, for example, the Canadian Counseling and Psychotherapy Association, the Canadian Psychological Association. In the us, the National Association of Social Workers. So, when a course or a program is accredited. What that means is that it meets certain high professional standards in order to get that seal of approval.

So while certification, itself doesn’t replace your licensure. The trainings are accredited to make sure that they’re rigorous evidence-based, and to align with those professional requirements. So, they really work hand in hand just again to give the public that assurance that what you’ve done is of high quality.

Kayla: I love that. And I actually have a few kind of comments on that as well. I know for some listeners, it also depends on what your definition of accreditation is, because I actually know that some therapists may think of accreditation as the same as, will it go towards my CECs from a regulatory body? And even if it’s, not on your website as being quote unquote accredited by this particular organization, a lot of regulatory bodies allow you to choose your courses and then, you know, submit either your certification, even with trainings like your participation certificate, things like that.

I’m going to use the Alberta College of Social Workers an example. I’m registered with the Alberta College of Social Workers. And although on your website it doesn’t necessarily say, accredited by, but when I submit my CECs every year PESI does show up as being a potential option. And so, it’s what is your purpose of taking the training? In addition to when someone is looking for an accredited quote unquote, certification, what does that mean? Accredited by who or what is the purpose of taking that training? And like I said, each regulatory body has its own idea of how CEC should be submitted.

You know, some are more autonomous where you can even just do a writeup of what you learned. Some regulatory bodies want you to submit a certificate. And some have their pre-approved courses, so it’s still really important if that’s the purpose of you taking any certification or any training is to double check with your regulatory body.

But again, just going back to my example, even though it’s not, I guess quote unquote accredited by the ACSW, they’re not really looking for accreditation.

Gerry: Kayla, I’m so happy you brought that up because I think this is one of the biggest challenges that a lot of clinicians’ face is the confusion over, if I submit this, is it going to be able to be admissible towards my continuing professional development hours that I’m required to do?

And I think the way PESI Canada is set up is that it’s flexible enough where it can really meet the highest of standards that maybe your college or your order is going to require you, all the way to you just want to take this because you’re interested in it and you don’t have to submit any evidence. So, we’ve learned a lot from our partners in the United States where it is so rigorous. Us being able to just submit a syllabus or a certificate of completion, we’ve got it easy. I would say in the US pretty much all of the states need to have their own accreditation and it becomes very, very complicated.

Whereas we’re fortunate in Canada to have a little bit more flexibility, but we as an organization have decided to still put that accreditation on our courses because when dealing with your order, our orders can seem sometimes really scary and intimidating and it’s because we just want to follow the rules and, there’s a lot of documents and regulations and bureaucracy and that can feel really overwhelming. We don’t want to make a mistake. So, we know that by putting accreditation on these courses, it kind of gives people a little bit extra confidence to say, you know what it doesn’t specify in my regulations what I have to submit specifically. But hopefully what we provide people on our website and in terms of accreditation, it gives them a little bit more confidence.

Kayla: I love that. So, myth two, and I see this a little bit in like, social media groups that I’m a part of, PESI Canada certifications are not quote unquote, as good as certifications taken through associations, universities, or by the pioneers of specific therapeutic techniques, modalities or topics. How would you respond to this myth?

Gerry: I love this question because it gets to the heart of what a certification really means, and the reality is there isn’t one single best certification or one size fits all certification. The right certification depends on you and your goals, your area of practice, the needs of your clients. These are all, questions that we need to ask ourselves before we run out, and sometimes spend a lot of money on some of these certifications. It’s really, what is right for me? What is the best thing for me and my clients?

I can speak a little bit about, well, I can speak a lot about Evergreen certification. I won’t maybe speak to some of those other certificates or certifications that are offered out there. But hopefully, your listeners can do the research. But Evergreen certification, is guided by a board of advisors. So, I mentioned this a little bit earlier. These are some of the professionals that we work with who review all of the certifications, review all the requirements.

Some of the members of our board of advisors include Janina Fisher, Frank Anderson, Dick Schwartz. So, these are some of the founders of some of these really important modalities. And on top of that, there’s full transparency about what it takes to earn these credentials. So, I think that transparency was really, really important for Evergreen when they set up our certifications up. Because in order to establish trust with our providers, but also the public, we needed to state very clearly and easily, accessibly on our website what it means exactly to be certified with Evergreen. So, Evergreen certifications are designed to be clinically sound practical and affordable.

Something that’s maybe a little bit different about Evergreen certifications compared to some others that exist out there is that they are focused on specific modalities or specific niches within practice that clinicians are asking for. So for example, our EMDR related certification. Emphasizes trauma treatment which makes it especially relevant for therapists working in that area.

So overall, I’d say evergreen certifications are a really solid, accessible option that compliment other professional credentials or even other certifications that exist out there.

Kayla: You know, I really love that. As you were speaking, it made me think about how sometimes we look at the cost of a training to really identify whether or not it is a quality training. And I don’t know about you, Gerry, but I have taken some quite expensive courses. And I kind of left not feeling quite underwhelmed by what was being presented.

But then, you know, I take PESI courses myself, and I love them. Right? And yes, they have a lower price tag, but like I said, it’s because PESI Canada is a non-for-profit, so they’re not looking to make a profit where a lot of other trainings are for profit.

Which I’m all about profit. Being in private practice and being a business coach, you know, profit isn’t the bad thing. But it doesn’t always identify that you’re paying a couple thousand dollars for this training, that it’s automatically going to equate to the quality that you had hoped for. And similarly paying less for a training doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not as good or not as quality.

Gerry: Absolutely. I really appreciate that example of some of these different options that come with a higher price tag. It doesn’t always mean, exceptional quality and that might just be for you, right? You know, it could be that the person you were sitting next to in that training, they could have loved it. They could have said, you know what, this is amazing. And that’s really where it comes down to it’s an individual decision based on what your interests and goals are.

But yeah, I’ll just echo what you said is one of the main objectives of offering certification through Evergreen, was to make it accessible and affordable and to give people choice and options because we know it can be tough out there when you add up the cost of housing, food, all these other expenses and they just seem to go up and up and up. It leaves not a lot of wiggle room for professional development. So, we really wanted to just like ease that gap a little bit and offer folks something affordable.

Kayla: Absolutely. So, this is the final myth. Myth three. PESI Canada only sells courses and certifications by individuals no one has ever heard of. I know I’ve taken courses by PESI by some pretty prominent names, and even the courses that I’ve taken from individuals who I may not have heard of before were excellent courses.

Gerry: Yes. Well, that’s definitely not true. I would say. One of PESI’s strengths is that it partners with some of the biggest names in psychology worldwide. So, people’s whose books, research, approaches are widely used and recognized as the leaders in the field.

That being said, before I joined PESI Some of these, and it’s embarrassing to admit, now that I’m here, but some of these big names, I had no idea who they were at the time, so I’m guilty of that as well. But rest assured, having met many of them, having attended their trainings, having read their research. Yeah, I’m very comforted to know that they really do walk the walk. They really do live up to their expectations.

And I would say at the same time, one of my responsibilities as clinical director of PESI Canada is to help spotlight some of our emerging Canadian voices that sometimes just don’t get the same attention is they do south of the border. So we have so much talent here and as part of our mission it’s to give Canadian experts the platform they need to share their work.

And a great example is Marcy Gray. So, she was one of our very first Canadian speakers and she’s now teaching across the US, her, course on relationships and infidelity is one of our top sellers. And it’s just so rewarding to see someone like Marcy, who is incredibly knowledgeable, who is incredibly experienced in this field to be able to reach a wider audience and really share that knowledge with as many people as possible. It’s also really nice to be able to play a part in just giving people this reach that they may not have had the opportunity to get otherwise.

Kayla: Oh, so amazing. Gerry, do you have any additional insights or advice about PESI Canada certification?

Gerry: I would say, it’s really important and I’d encourage all clinicians out there to browse the Evergreen website, to browse the PESI website, because you might discover a certification or a course that directly aligns with your practice or area of focus. So, whether it’s trauma. Addictions, mindfulness, working with children’s and families. There’s really something for everyone.

So definitely go have a look browse through beyond the learning, certification can also help with your professional visibility and marketing. You talked a little bit about this, Kayla, as how we’re all entrepreneurs, right? We all have a business to run and as hard as it is for some people. Or as much as we like to pretend it’s not important. Marketing and branding is crucial to our success. And I know you talk a lot about this on your podcast.

So, Evergreen provides clinicians who meet the standards and meet the requirements with a digital badge, for example, that you can use on your website, your email signature. And this, again, it signals to clients that you’ve invested in your training and that you’re able to support in a very specific way.

Evergreen also offers exclusive training discounts so you can stay up to date with the latest approaches in that specific area of practice. So, for example, if you have that EMDR certifications and trauma. You’ll get special access and discounts on EMDR related trauma trainings as well. It’s a nice way to just stay up to speed and maintain that certification.

And maybe one last thing at the end of the day certification is both a way to deepen your expertise and a way to communicate that expertise to your clients and community.

Kayla: I love that. So, if you’re thinking about signing up for PESI Canada certifications, head to kayladas.com/pesicanada

Or you can simply scroll down to the show notes and click on the link.

And also, by using my link. You’ll receive an exclusive discount on PESI Canada courses, which again, for Canadian listeners are in Canadian dollars. It’s like my favorite thing to say.

Gerry, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today to discuss MythBusters about PESI Canada certifications.

Gerry: Thank you for having me. It was a real pleasure to get to talk to you,

Kayla: And thank you everyone for tuning into today’s episode, and I hope you join me again soon on The Designer Practice Podcast.

Until next time, bye for now.

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