Show Notes

In today’s episode, Linzy Bonham, private practice therapist turned Money Coach, will share how to overcome money shame in your private practice.

Hi Linzy, welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you here today.

Linzy: Hi Kayla. Thank you for having me.

Kayla: Linzy, before we dive into today’s episode, please introduce yourself, where you’re from, and tell us a little bit about your own practice journey.

Linzy: Sure. So, my name is Linzy Bonham. I am a trauma therapist by training a social worker turned financial educator, money coach for therapists. I’m based in Guelph, Ontario, so I am Canadian, but I always quickly followed that up with saying, and I run an international business. I work with Canadians, Americans, Europeans.

I’ve even got folks in my world from India and New Zealand, although none of those folks have taken my course yet. Because the time zone is brutal. But I started off in private practice many, many years ago now. Hungry to learn about the financial pieces of it, of like, okay, I’m here. Like, how do I do this part? Realized that really nobody was teaching it specifically or talking about it, so you know, I filled in some gaps. And then as helper types are want to do, I started helping my colleagues and friends with money, found that they were hungry for this information too. Although maybe a little bit less enthusiastic about it like I was.

And so, I started my course Money Skills for Therapists off the side of my desk in 2018, which is my course that teaches therapists and private practice how to feel calm and confident about their business finances. So, we work on the money mindset, relationship with money piece, as well as how to actually do it. I’ve been doing that ever since. So now this is my full-time thing.

I retired from social work a few years ago now, and now I full-time help therapist with money, which is like such a gift to be able to do this work every day.

Kayla: I love that and I just know being a business coach myself, money is such a big topic when it comes to therapists and private practice and I think one, it’s the selflessness of therapists. But it’s also, and I know you said that you’re a social worker too, like in social work we are kind of ingrained to be that support and to provide free services and to work at a lower rate. Right, it’s the good thing to do.

However, when it comes to private practice, I mean, we’re not getting that paycheck like we would if we were in an organization. So we need to get the money somewhere. And that’s when a lot of this shows up for people.

Linzy: It is, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of conditioning that we go through. I would say even long before many of us joined the field, often being women and people of color. Also being that helper type in our family, we were usually already the one who was taking care of the people around us.

The first time I was called a therapist; I was 12 years old by my best friend at the time. And so, long before I got paid to be a therapist, I was a little baby therapist. So I think there’s so much conditioning that we have before we even get into this field just by virtue of who we are in the world.

And then we go into the field and then we get all of this education about social justice and systems that are broken and this like you need to step in and help. And I think especially with social work, we’re especially mired in that systems piece.

I just came back from the NASW, the National Association of Social Worker Conference in Chicago last week. I’m a Canadian social worker and I got to be with American Social Workers, and I noticed there’s a different flavor to social workers as a type of therapist as opposed to counselors. We went to the Counselor Association a couple months before that because we’re so systems literate and we’re so aware of all the ways that systems fail people, and all the gaps that folks can fall between, and we really carry that on our shoulders in this really heavy way and we try to make up for that as much as we can, but it is a massive burden to carry.

And the reality is, unfortunately, at the end of the day, each one of individually cannot do enough to make up for those system failures. But we try. We really, really try at our own expense and the expenses of our families.

Kayla: I couldn’t agree with you more. So first of all, what is money shame and how does it show up for therapists in particular?

Linzy: Yeah, so money shame is. I use it almost as a shorthand for this whole packet of negative emotions we can have related to money. Shame being the heaviest of all of them, which is how many therapists’ experience money, right? It’s like we feel bad about needing to earn it. We feel confused about how to manage it. There’s so many facets of our relationship to money that can be fraught for therapists.

And what that ends up looking like, Kayla, is that therapists when they have to deal with money. When they think about approaching working on their money, we often get overwhelmed by this package of emotions. This like shame and stress and anxiety and fear, and we just kind of shut down and avoid.

So, I find typical in terms of our nervous systems, folks tend to go one way or the other. We either go like hyper obsessive, hyper arousal, think about it all the time, can’t stop looking at it, thinking about it. We’re kind of spinning our wheels with it, like we don’t know what to do, but we just keep like looking at it constantly.

Or the more common one I see is more of the hypo-arousal response, which is just avoid it. Just hide, pretend it’s not there because the emotionality around it is so heavy for us.

Kayla: I agree with you, and I think even outside of private practice, money can be a really hard topic to think about. Especially, if you’re starting a new private practice and like this is your sole income and then you feel like you’re not getting the same amount as you were in an organization. But then you also feel the pull of providing sliding scale and pro bono services and all of that. Again, the conditioning you mentioned that we’ve been kind of taught to have, that can be really difficult for people.

So why is it so hard for therapists, do you think?

Linzy: Yeah, those layers that I was mentioning earlier that really pile on for us. So often, many of us tend to be either by virtue of our identities being women or marginalized folks, already the default kind of like caregiver. Then usually we have personalities that also predispose us towards helping. Like, in my family, my brother and I both grew up in that family, but I ended up being more of a helper type than he is, although I’d say he’s also a helper type. But you know, we also have that specific Benton trait already. Then we go into a field that conditions us into sacrifice yourself. I’ve heard different versions of this, but one phrase I find particularly like ugh, is “it’s about the outcome, not the income,” right? It’s all supposed to be about what happens for our clients. It’s about, you know, making things happen for them. You didn’t go into this field to make money is another one.

So, I’ve been talking with grad students at these conferences who specifically talk about how this is the messaging they get explicitly from professors. It’s like, no, no, no. You’re not here to talk about this. You’re not here to go into private practice. You’re here to help people, right? And if you’re here to even think about making an income, you’re in the wrong place. And so, there’s all these layers that pile up.

And then all of us to come with our own little bundle of money stories from our families. Right. The conditioning that we received or the modeling that we saw from our parents. Very rarely are people actually actively purposely taught about money from their parents. Instead, we absorb these little phrases, we absorb their stress. We hear things like money doesn’t grow on trees. Or we see our parents one week talk about how money is tight and there’s a stress in the family, and then the next week they splurge on something. As children, we witness all of these interactions with money that often we can’t really make sense of. So, we interpret what’s happening and we make up stories that all of us have money stories. We all have money stories. Often, they’re contradictory. When you start to really unpack them, there’s often two that just directly don’t make sense with each other.

And sometimes we have a mix of our parents’ money stories we have. We kind of are tight with money like this parent was. But then also we splurged like that parent did. Because that’s where we learned how to manage money. So, in the lack of actual education, which we do not get to be clear, we do not get actual financial education in the school system. We don’t get financial education in our master’s training. Even though many of us will go into private practice. In the lack of actual education, we just get kind of like vague ideas and stories and experiences that lead us to come up with some narratives around money, and that’s what we carry around with us every day.

Kayla: Absolutely. And I’m kind of thinking of the word money versus the word finances. What are the distinction between the two? Or is there one?

Linzy: Yeah, there’s absolutely a distinction, and this is something that I am proud of, that I do specifically is money and finances.

So, money relates to the more emotional part of money, like money existing, right? So, you’ll have lots of folks who teach about like money mindset, like working on your money mindset. Cultivating an abundance mindset, which, I have things to say about, but that would be an example of the money part of things. Because as therapists, we have to make peace with the fact that we even need money sometimes. Sometimes we feel quite conflicted and upset that we even need money.

And the joke that I make to folks sometimes is you can’t go to the grocery store and be like, I’m a nice person, so can I have this $200 of groceries? That doesn’t work. We need money at the end of the day. And so, a lot of working on your relationship with money is again, those stories about it. Those feelings. How do you think about it? What do you want money to be? That’s the money part of the work that I do with people.

But then finances is actual management skills. How do you set aside enough money for taxes? How do you save for the future? How do you save for your retirement? How do you save up for that trip to Disney so it doesn’t turn into a big credit card debt? How do you decide how much to spend on professional development in your business? How do you pay yourself a regular paycheck? That’s finances. That’s when we’re getting into the actual management skills of money and that’s actually a totally different beast.

So sometimes too, I’ll work with folks who’ve really worked on their money mindset. They’re like, okay. I now have come to peace with the fact that I do deserve to make $200 an hour, $250, or $400 because I live in San Francisco and this is what I need to live and my skills are really valuable. But they have no idea how to actually make the money stick around. And that’s finances. Financial skills are how you actually manage the money, so it goes where you want it to go. Because earning is only the first part of making finances work. Actually, directing it meaningfully is the rest of it. And that’s the part that actually has the biggest impact on your life.

Kayla: It really has me thinking. As I mentioned on the podcast before, I’m actually in the process of writing a book on passive income. It’s called the Passive Practice. And really what you’re sharing is also kind of tying in the money aspect is how do I make that money? Is it through one-to-one sessions? Is it through some type of passive income means.

But then the finances is okay, now that I’m getting it, how do I distribute it? How do I ensure that I have a living? And I think when we even talk about money mindset, it’s often that the fear comes from the money, and then we avoid the finances because it’s the money the tangible piece of money is like the hard thing to think about. And then the finances, it’s scary because it’s showing you either where it is going, where it’s not going, or where it should be going.

Linzy: Yes. And finances too are about math and responsibility. Sometimes about discipline and self-control, which is like not fun at all. Like it’s so much funner to earn $10,000 than to decide how to manage it. And of course, part of the work that we do with folks is helping them to shift that relationship to budgeting the B word.

How do you direct money in a way that feels empowering? And how do you really identify your real value so you can see money going towards that? That’s actually really powerful and fun once you get there. But, yeah, it’s like making the money can be hard enough in itself and then it’s like now we have to be responsible with it. So I completely understand why folks skip that part.

And the other piece, Kayla, is that most of the time therapist-sty types, don’t tend to be people who also got a pluses in math. Like it’s just not a huge overlap in the Venn diagram between like relationship people and feelings people and people who loved like English class and art, and people who like also really like vibed with calculus, right? They’re just different types of intelligences and some folks do have both and there is that crossover.

For many therapists, it’s like, no, no, I’m really good at feelings. Like I will sit with somebody who just went through the most horrific trauma in the world and I will sit with all of that enormity and the unknown and things that, by the way, would make other people scream running from the room. But have me like make a spreadsheet or have to figure out how much I owe for taxes. Like I would rather do literally anything but.

So also, for most of us, it tends to be an area that we don’t have as much strength, which as perfectionists and achievers is very tempting to ignore it. Because you just want to do what you’re good at instead.

Kayla: Absolutely. So, when we think of say, passive income into private practices, whether it’s podcasting, blogging, writing a book, hiring people in your practice, all of those things that could be considered passive income. From your experience, does it help decrease the money shame?

Linzy: I would say actually it’s a new level, new devil. It’s an even greater hurdle for folks. So often, at least by the time we get out into private practice, we’re used to the idea that I’m going to sit with you for an hour, I’m going to do my thing. Then you’re going to give me $150 or $185 for it. So usually by the time we’re in private practice, we’re used to that transactional piece of money of like, I have exchanged my time. And it doesn’t really matter in a way, like whether that was the best session I ever did or whatever. It’s like, this is the agreement. I give you an hour of my time, so you give me this money.

Once we get into writing books, maybe having a podcast that you’re going to monetize, creating a course like I did, all of these other ways that we can create more passive income, creating a membership, then we actually have to believe that we can give value to folks beyond that one-on-one interaction. And that, I find is a whole other hurdle for folks to overcome, which is like maybe what you do is actually so valuable that you don’t have to personally give your time.

And I noticed that for myself when I went into moving from being a therapist and a trauma therapist to where I was doing very intense work for like $175 an hour to teaching a course that’s fun and easy and light for me, but can be transformative to people. I do find that for a lot of folks, there’s a new level to overcome in terms of that, like worthiness. Or really believing that they’re giving value, that you can actually be providing amazing value without giving your time one hour at a time. So, I have seen that it’s an additional hurdle for folks to overcome when it comes to that money shame. And those stories and new things will come up, and new stories about not being good enough will come up.

But of course, once you get on the other side of it, it’s incredibly liberating and you can have a huge impact on the folks that you love to serve.

Kayla: Absolutely. Like one thing that I tell people, therapy is clients’ last resort. Usually, they go everywhere else before they come to see you. So, these are places that you could be showing up. I agree with you. Yeah, like it comes with its own self-doubt, worries, fears, fear of failure. Am I going to make money? Because one of the things with passive income is you put the work up front and don’t get paid, and then in hopes of making money. Whereas like you said, that transactional piece seems to be a little bit easier because I provide you a service, you give me money. So, I see that immediate result.

Linzy: Well, and the therapy session is actually a space in which the therapist has a lot of control. So, I say something to you, I’m reading your facial expression. I know I have this whole backstory in my head about you. I know what kind of language you like to use. I know your history. So, in that interaction too, I’m really able in a lot of ways to control how that conversation goes. In a way that’s what we’re really good at as therapists is being able to like set a frame that is safe in which folks can like process big things.

When I put myself out into the world, like having a podcast like I do or selling a course to somebody who maybe I’ll never meet, maybe they won’t come to calls, maybe they’ll be self-study. I don’t have so much control, and so I’ve actually found that that’s another big hurdle for therapists is there is putting yourself out there that can be exposing and feel quite vulnerable. And I know for me that was my greatest hurdle I had to overcome with leaning fully into this business is like, what if people are mad at me? What if they yell at me? What if I get trolled on the internet? Right. And I will tell you like when people have been mean, like their insults are not that good. I’m like, nah, I could have said meaner things about myself. But there is some of that exposure that happens where it’s not so much of a safe, controlled interaction anymore, and there is more of this being seen and like not having control over who sees you or how they think about you. And that in itself can also be scary for therapists when we’re so used to. Yeah. Really being able to set the tone of the interaction.

Kayla: Absolutely. So, what practical steps could therapists do to decrease money shame, if it’s showing up for them?

Linzy: The biggest thing to start with is always to be aware, right? So, there’s that being with, I talk a lot with my students about being with, like, you would think that I’m teaching meditation, but I’m actually teaching finances because a lot of the time we can be so phobic of money itself that we sit down, something starts to come up. All we know is that we’re uncomfortable and we want to get the hell out of here. And so, it’s like, oh, I have to go make my seventh cup of tea for the day. It’s very important. I need to go now. Or like, oh, what’s happening on Facebook?

So often we switch channels before we even start to notice what is happening for us around money or finances. Something that I suggest folks do as a starting place is start to let yourself be exposed a little bit to finances, whether it’s looking at your bank account, trying to do some math on like, okay, am I saving enough for taxes? If you’re in the private practice space? Thinking about, okay, if I did want to save for this trip, how much a month would I have to save? Do a little math and let yourself notice what’s happening. Being curious is really powerful. I’m saying this like a trauma therapist, where curiosity is like my, ah, because it does such good things for our brains in terms of getting us out of that hyper aroused, overwhelmed, survival state into what is this?

So, if I sit down to look at my spreadsheet and I start to feel kind of like sick to my stomach, what is that? Is it that I’m having stories come up that I’m messing it up and I’m a failure. Like my dad was right. I’m never going to figure this out on my own. Why did I ever think about I could go into my own business? Like we have so much baggage around money, but we can’t start to shift it until we can start to name what it is. Because it’s different for all of us. And again, new level, new devil, there’s going be different things that come up at different times.

So, the first thing always is like being curious, being with it, holding it gently, starting to unpack, reframe, and these kinds of things are things that you might be able to do just on your own, sitting at your computer. Some of it is going to be stuff you need to take to therapy. Some of it will be things you can talk about with your partner or your best friend. Like everybody has their way of unraveling and softening the stories that have a hold of us. But you have to start to figure out what that mix is for you. Because sometimes too, even just noticing that it’s there, you’re like, oh, that’s not true. Like that math teacher who said, I’m never going to figure out how to do math, she was such a jerk. And like later I learned X, Y, Z about her. As an adult, I could see like she was just an angry human who was taking it on children. I can just let that go. Sometimes just naming and realizing allows you to release it and other times there’s things that need more attention and journaling and more compassion and care. But that being with being curious. Letting yourself start to reframe those stories is a really powerful place to start to unwind your money shame.

Kayla: Amazing. What common signs do you see in therapists who manage to change their relationship with money for the better?

Linzy: Yeah. The therapists I see who’ve made huge changes around money who are many. They approach it over and over again. There’s like a sticking with it with money. It’s kind of like, I don’t know, getting in shape or learning a new skill.

Sometimes we want to think that we can sit down and like do it and then it’s done. I’m going to sit down, I’m going to catch up my taxes for last year. Like taxes are done, money is done forever. And that’s not how money works, right? Money is a lifelong relationship. And so the therapists who I see who have really made huge changes. They have a sticking with it to them. They come back to it over and over again. They allow themselves to be curious. They allow themselves to like connect with others and be vulnerable. They don’t make it some sort of shameful, secretive thing that they need to work on. They find friends to co-work with. They join courses like mine where they get to be with other people. That kind of tenacity of coming back to it again and again, and allowing yourself to be vulnerable and curious gets you very, very far when it comes to changing your relationship with money.

Kayla: That’s really helpful. And I’m wondering if you could provide one small step to our listeners that they could take away from today to start reducing their shame about money, what would that one step be?

Linzy:  that first step would be to give yourself a little bit of exposure and see what happens. So, you’re going to know what that is for you, the thing that you’ve maybe been avoiding. It might be looking at that like IRS letter that’s been sitting on your desk for three months. It might be looking at your tax return to look at how much did you actually make last year.

It might be looking at your bank accounts or looking at that credit card bill and starting to think about, okay, how am I going to pay this down? We all have our areas where we have charge around money. So, letting yourself just look at that and be with it, even if it’s literally two minutes. And then practicing what we just spoke about of being curious, noticing what comes up, whose voice is in your head. Is this what you want to believe about money? Does this even make sense? Starting to get just even the edges of what your stories are. Helps a lot, right? It’s one step at a time and it’s a baby step. And sometimes these things can be overwhelming. So, I don’t want you to like sit and try to work on your finances for three hours. Because I can tell you if you have a lot of charge around it, you’re going to hate it. It’s going to be terrible. And then you’re going to be like, I’m not doing that again for six months.

What we want to help you do is to build up your tolerance of being with it a little bit at a time. So just practice a little bit of exposure therapy. Let yourself be curious, give yourself a treat afterwards. Go for a walk. Count that as a win, right? And then you can do it again later. But that little by little is how we build up our skills and our tolerance to being with our money.

Kayla: I love that. Linzy, you have a free masterclass that you’d like to share. Can you tell us what it is and how it can help listeners?

Linzy: Yes. So, my free masterclass is the four step framework to Getting your Private Practice Finances. In order It, you could find it on my website and it walks you through the biggest mistakes that therapists make in private practice when they’re trying to make money work for them. It walks you through my four-step framework, which has helped hundreds of therapists to get money working for them. And also walks you through my story, how I went from being kind of like getting by in private practice to being the sole breadwinner in our family. And it gives you the full introduction to money skills for therapists.

So, my course I’ve been teaching since 2018. It’s an excellent course and it’s not for everybody. So, if you’re curious about the course, checking out the masterclass is a way to get a good taste for me, what I teach, you’ll have great tidbits that you can take away, but it’ll also give you a sense of whether money skills for therapists makes sense for you in terms of what you need right now in your business with your private practice finances.

Kayla: So, to sign up for Linzy’s four step framework to getting your private practice finances in order, head to moneynutsandbolts.com/masterclasssignup

Or you could simply scroll down to the show notes and click on the link.

Linzy, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today to discuss overcoming Money Shame in private practice.

Linzy: Thank you so much for having me, Kayla.

Kayla: Thank you everyone for tuning into today’s episode, and I hope you join me again soon on The Designer Practice Podcast.

Until next time, bye for now.

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