Show Notes

Kayla: Welcome back to The Designer Practice Podcast, and I’m your host, Kayla Das.

If you like EMDR, then you’ll love the new technique that we’ll be discussing in today’s episode.

Today, Krista Helman, therapist, speaker, and EMDRIA approved consultant, will share EMDR-GRIEF a revolutionary technique for managing grief in your private practice.

Hi Krista, welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you here today.

Krista: Thank you for having me. It’s nice to be here.

Kayla: Krista, before we dive into today’s episode, please introduce yourself, where you’re from, and tell us a little bit about you and your practice journey.

Krista: I’m the Executive Director of the Trauma and Grief Institute in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I have a practice, and I specialize in trauma and grief. And, I started off as just a trauma therapist and, sometimes life throws us curve balls. I ended up researching grief and going down that rabbit hole, and now I also work with grief and specialize with that.

Kayla: Amazing. So, I know that most therapists may know, but just in case someone doesn’t know what is grief, and what happens in the brain and body during a grief response.

Krista: First of all, I think it’s important to say that grief is a natural and normal response to an experience that all of us humans have. And it’s not just from death of a loved one. Grief can also come from loss within a relationship. So, whether that be a breakup or divorce or estrangement can also come from loss of health. So, if either ourselves or someone we care about has some sort of illness. A loss of identity or a role. So that can come from retirement, job loss moving. Can also come from a loss of safety or control. Whether we are experiencing trauma, violence, natural disaster or loss of dreams or future plans. That can come from perhaps having infertility, career changes, life not unfolding as expected.

It can also come from community loss. Some examples of that might be those of us who’ve experienced displacement or systemic oppression.

So, loss comes from many different areas. I don’t think any of us can escape it. And essentially it disrupts our attachment system. And it really, it disrupts our assumptive world. So, this is, how we feel safe. Safe in the world, how we feel connected and how we manage to identify in the world.

And so, when we experience a loss and we’re grieving, we’re experiencing, a process in our brain trying to accommodate for this loss. And our brain is slow sometimes. So, if you think about it, where if you would like to get a glass of water right now, you can probably imagine how you’re gonna get that glass of water. You’re gonna probably go to your kitchen, get a glass outta the cupboard, turn on the faucet. Reliably that water’s gonna come out. You are gonna fill up your glass of water and have a drink. And so, you’re gonna get your need meant reliably. You know where to find it, you know how to get it done right, and you kind of know how long it’s going to take.

And so, grief really acts the same way. So, imagine one day you wake up. And you’re suddenly in a desert and you’re thirsty, and so this is your need. You need to get a drink. You’re thirsty and your brain is telling you; we really need to get a drink. We need to get in touch with this water again. You really don’t know what to do because you’re suddenly in a desert and your only choice is to just start walking in any direction. And this is scary. It is awful. You don’t know what to expect. And you don’t know when you’re going to get your need met either. And then all of a sudden you fall upon this oasis in the desert and you’re able to get your drink, and so your brain now knows the next time you wake up in the middle of the desert in that spot, you now know, oh, I have to walk in this direction and it’s gonna take about this long until I get a drink again. So, your brain has rewired it has accommodated for that loss. It’s not the same way of getting your need met, but we can still find a way to get our need met.

And it’s the same in particular with loss of a loved one. Our brain, our attachment system, so desperately is yearning to have that connection again. When will I see them again? Where are they now? And the process of grieving is really important because it helps us to reconnect.

So, the pain that comes with grief and loss is actually really important because it’s that pain that activates that system within us, that program already within us to grieve, to remap in time, space, and connection.

So, a lot happens inside of us when we’re experiencing grief and loss. It is very energetically draining. It takes a lot of energy to experience grief. But essentially, bottom line is we have to feel it to heal it. I’m pretty sure that Dan Siegel that says that. And so, we can help our clients to feel the feelings. Support them through it and hopefully they can create a new sense of connection and some meaning making within their experience.

Kayla: That’s really helpful to conceptualize, especially using those analogies. It makes so much sense. Now I’m curious, can EMDR be used to work with clients who are experiencing grief?

Krista: Absolutely EMDR can be used for those who are experiencing grief. Originally, you know, EMDR was developed for trauma for PTSD, but there’s been so much great research out there that we know EMDR can be helpful in so many different areas.

So how EMDR helps is, it turns down the volume of that pain, which we know that pain is blocking that adaptive information. So, in the world of EMDR, we work with something called the Adaptive Information Processing Model. And so, this is the understanding that we have within us all of this information about how we did survive, and how we can survive and all of this really great stuff that we need to move on.

In particular when we’re experiencing trauma, that traumatic experience blocks that access to the adaptive information with that understanding deep within the root of ourselves that, oh, it is over, right, that traumatic experience, with grief, that emotional pain that is so important to activate that program that we all have within us to get through that process. That’s also important.

So EMDR helps to turn down the volume of that emotional pain, which then allows our client to have better access to that adaptive information. And memories really are that bridge to help our clients function in the world today because their world has changed without their consent. Especially, in particular with loss of a loved one, those memories of that loved one are super important to be able to access so that we can use that as a bridge from the world that was to the world that is.

But as I mentioned, EMDR can be used for many forms of grief, not just loss of a loved one. And the EMDR grief protocol does a really great job at accessing all those domains that might be involved with many forms of grief.

Kayla: That makes so much sense. Can you explain specifically the EMDR-GRIEF technique and how it can be applied when working with clients who have experienced grief?

Krista: So standard EMDR protocol goes through eight phases, basically eight steps. The first step is getting to know your client. The next step is building a bit of a toolbox to help them feel the feelings. And then there’s what most of us think of as EMDR, which is the eye movements, so the dual attention stimulation.

And so EMDR-GRIEF the grief in EMDR-GRIEF is actually it stands for Grieving, Reconnection, Integration, and Enrichment Framework. And so those represent different stages or phases of EMDR-GRIEF.

So, the first one, grieving is essentially phase one EMDR with some grief specific suggestions where as clinicians we’re doing our history taking and planning with our clients.

Then reconnection is the preparation and emotional regulation stage with, again, some grief specific suggestions in addition to what EMDR clinicians already learn.

Integration. That’s the phase where we work with our clients to process targets related to grief and anything blocking grief. And that’s what we tend to think of when we think of EMDR, most of us, where we see, someone’s eyes going back and forth or they’re doing the tapping.

Then there’s another phase that’s optional and really only appropriate for those who have experienced loss of a loved one. And that’s called the Enrichment phase. And that’s where we can help our clients with adaptive connection, adaptive grieving and meaning making.

Within the EMDR-GRIEF, we use this framework to help with our target sequencing. So, I’ve created this acronym called TAAPS plus T-A-A-P-S Plus. And it’s a guide on what maybe we should be looking for in our history taking, and also when we’re choosing our targets to work with grief. So, the T stands for trauma or pivotal moments of realization. So, I recommend that if your client has experienced a traumatic loss, the first target that you would like to work with your client is going to be that trauma if possible, if they’re stable for it.

And then if they don’t have traumatic loss, then everyone who has experienced a loss does have a pivotal moment of realization. So that’s the moment where they came to realize the loss. So, for some people, that’s when they got the phone call or maybe that’s when they were in the funeral looking at the casket. Or maybe that’s later on. We know when they’re celebrating a milestone and it suddenly comes upon them. They’ve realized that this loss has happened. That pivotal moment of realization is just as important. And I recommend working with those two first.

The first A stands for attachment injuries. And so, attachment injuries essentially is like if our client has any attachment injuries related to the loss, which is really common, especially if there is loss of a loved one or if there’s a loss of control or power. There can be a lot of related attachment injuries where it’s helpful to find those targets earlier in life. Work on that with our client, and that has a ripple effect into today.

The A-A-P-S isn’t in any particular order, by the way. So, the next A stands for affect. Really what I’m talking about here in the range of targets is unhelpful protective emotions. So, what we’re saying is if someone is having a blockage with having unhelpful emotions, such as extreme anger or guilt or sense of responsibility. And it’s not helping and it’s getting in the way of someone going through their grieving process, then we can target that, turn the volume down, and help client have a different perspective on that.

The P stands for past losses because when we experience a loss, we’re not just experiencing the current loss, the neural network system says, right? The adaptive information processing model says we’re experiencing every loss that’s ever happened to us. It’s all related. So, if we have past losses that are unresolved, it can be really helpful to target those past losses, help those get resolved, and again, that has a ripple effect into today. It doesn’t make everything go away, but it can just help relieve some of that pressure so that it doesn’t feel so heavy.

Then the S stands for secondary losses and I feel like this one’s really important. When I teach EMDR grief, I say at the very minimal if we’re going to work with clients with grief and loss, there’s always a pivotal moment of realization and there’s always a secondary loss. Those are the two targets that we can always find for sure.

So, a secondary loss is again, those ripple effects that happen. Let’s say someone loses a spouse and that spouse is the one who does all of the housework. And so that person is likely going to get support from their community and family and friends regarding the loss of that spouse. That’s the primary loss. What clients often don’t get recognized for are these secondary losses. So that’s now this client has to learn how to pay the bills. They have to learn how to run the lawnmower. When they get invited to the block party on the street. They no longer have a partner. They’re the only one that doesn’t have a partner. Every time there’s any type of holiday, Valentine’s Day, their partner isn’t there. Or there’s a secondary loss of never being able to have a child with that partner or another child with that partner. So, the secondary losses are so, so important to target whether you’re doing grief or EMDR-GRIEF work, or you’re just working with clients in general with grief. This is what our clients really need help with, and they don’t even know what these are most of the time. So, we can help them navigate that.

And then finally the plus in TAAPS plus stands for future templates. So in standard EMDR protocol, after we work with the traumatic material. Then we invite our client to envision coping with something similar in the future with adaptive coping, with helpful coping imagery. And so, it’s important we maintain that as well with grief and loss, that we make sure we always also do a future template.

The really cool thing about EMDR-GRIEF is that we can process targets. We can select targets in the past, present, or future, that are upsetting. For example, a secondary loss that could be in the future, that could be a future time of being worried about being invited to the neighborhood party. It doesn’t just always have to be past or present stuff.

And there’s a certain way that we go about selecting those targets and going through the processing part within EMR grief to make sure that we are basically scanning and making sure we get all those domains and all those layers of grief. Yeah, that’s pretty much how EMDR grief works in a nutshell.

Kayla: I love that. So, from your experience working, say with the research and with EMDR-GRIEF specifically, what are common signs that therapists might see to demonstrate that the technique is effectively working with their clients?

Krista: Yeah. So, clients often report feeling, a reduced emotional upset reduced avoidance. They show increased capacity to basically stay with their sadness. The goal is not to make the sadness go away and for their loved one or for that loss. Let’s say they’ve lost a job. We don’t want them to just say, forget it. Right? We actually want them to feel it. We want them to be able to come to a place where they can tolerate it and they can hold that truth and also walk and step into the future with hope.

So, we’ll often see clients starting to say that they’re feeling like they’re a bit more future oriented. They’re a bit more in the present. And I also, when I teach this, I say like, it’s really common for, let’s say we do a trauma target. Oftentimes the client will come in the next time and they never have issues with that specific trauma target again, because we’ve now resolved it.

But with grief, there’s just so many layers. So many layers across all these domains and across the past, present, and future. It is common and it can happen that the client will come in the next time and they’re feeling really sad about the same thing again. And it doesn’t mean that it didn’t work. It means that, and if we ask, there’s actually another layer. There’s more depth to what it is that they’re feeling.

Yeah, so I mean, and grief is not linear either. I think too, a lot of people believe that there’s those five stages of grief, that Elizabeth Kubler Ross came up with. And that was actually meant for those who are going through terminal illness where like they’re ill. And so, there’s other models out there that I teach with EMDR-GRIEF that are a bit more forgiving and have the understanding that grief ebbs and flows in and out of these different stages of realization of accommodating for the loss, right? In the past, present, and future.

Kayla: That’s really helpful. Do you have any additional advice, insights, or tips for listeners about EMDR-GRIEF, or how to use it when working with clients to manage grief?

Krista: So, first and foremost, I say screen for trauma. And if there is trauma, deal with that first. Absolutely. The other really big piece that I haven’t talked about yet is well normalizing the range of experiences of grief. How we experienced grief is informed by how we were raised and how it was modeled for us. So not everyone is going to experience it the same way. So, educating our clients and normalizing that as much as possible.

But the big thing I haven’t talked about yet is after death communication. And so, an after-death communication is where someone who has recently lost a loved one suddenly feels like they’re having some sort of communication or connection with the deceased. And that can be a sense of just their presence in the room. It can be them being visited with a really vivid dream that just doesn’t feel like a normal dream. It could be like a sense of almost like a download of information, with a messaging. Most of the time the messaging is helpful. It’s loving, it’s comforting for our clients, and this is an experience that humans have been having across our lifespan.

When I first came across this, I really didn’t know if there was much science behind it, but it turns out there is. And those who were asked in one of the studies, I came across. Almost 50% of people who were brave enough to actually admit that they’ve had these experience say Yes, I’ve had some sort of experience.

And so, since I’ve started working with grief in my clinic, I am also having people tell me, oh yeah, I didn’t think that was okay to talk to you about that. So, it’s really important that as mental health helpers that we are aware of an after-death communication, we can help normalize it. It does not mean that our client is experiencing poor mental health.

And if anything, research shows that when this can be acknowledged and validated and actually it’s not about saying, yes, this was real, and your mother did come and visit you. It’s about saying what was that like for you? What does it mean for you that she came and visited you and told you that it’s okay and that you, she just wants you to live your life, and to move on with your life. That is so healing for our clients, it really can be part of the therapeutic process.

Yeah, I think that’s pretty much, what I think the main things are with working with grief and losses, and also to normalize that not every day is going to feel like an excellent day, and that’s okay. And we meet our clients where they’re at.

Kayla: Absolutely. Oh, that was such great information. And I think anyone who has clients coming in with grief, especially those who you know already use EMDR in the practice or consider using EMDR, is going to love this approach. So, I do know that you are hosting an upcoming training on EMDR-GRIEF can you tell us a little bit about what it is, how it can help participants learn about EMDR-GRIEF, and then how can they sign up?

Krista: Yeah, so the next in-person training that I have coming up is in Ottawa, Ontario. As I said, it’s in person and it’s November 6th and 7th, 2025. I will be scheduling more in-person and live virtual trainings as well. But that’s what we have coming up.

And so, the EMDR grief training covers both, theory and it also covers a step-by-step practical application. And the feedback I’ve gotten when I’ve delivered the training is that the actual practicing is really helpful. So, what we’re going to cover is basically how grief affects the brain and the body. How to assess for complicated grief. Step-by-step guidance of going through the processes of EMDR-GRIEF when talking about the grieving reconnection and integration framework. Target planning using the TAAPS plus framework, how to incorporate after death communication experiences if they arise spontaneously in session. And they do actually happen quite often, especially during the Enrichment phase.

And so, the training includes practical scripts demonstration clips, so like some videos to demonstrate clinical worksheets. And then there is also a manual that can go alongside the training as well.

Kayla: Amazing. So, to sign up for Krista’s EMDR-GRIEF Training, check out traumaandgrief.com/professionals. You can also check out Krista’s website at kristahelman.com

or you can simply scroll down to the show notes and click on the links.

Krista, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today to discuss EMDR-GRIEF, a revolutionary technique for managing grief.

Krista: Thank you, Kayla.

Thank you everyone for tuning into today’s episode, and I hope you join me again soon on The Designer Practice Podcast.

Until next time, bye for now.

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