Show Notes

In today’s episode, Danielle Halloran, registered psychotherapist qualifying, will break down the realities of getting clients today.

Hi Danielle. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

Danielle, before we dive into today’s episode, please introduce yourself, where you’re from, and tell us a little bit about your professional journey.

Sure, yeah. I’m a registered psychotherapist, qualifying, like you said, I’m based in Ottawa, Ontario, but I’m originally from Newfoundland and I work with adults. Typically, who are dealing with things like chronic pain, chronic illness, and other health issues, insomnia, medical trauma, work a lot with Neurodivergence. And I also support folks with their relationship with body and food.

A big part of my work is recognizing sort of the overlap that exists between these categories and how they impact both mental health and day-to-day functioning in ways that aren’t always obvious.

Before becoming a therapist, I spent about 17 years working in the federal government in public health behavioral sciences. So I’ve always been interested in how people behave and make changes but I wanted to work more directly with people. So I made a big shift and it wasn’t straightforward, but I think it gave me really good perspective on what it’s like to rethink your path and build something new and I definitely bring that into my work with clients now, so.

I love it. So as a new therapist, have you been surprised by the gap between how many people are struggling with mental health related issues and how hard it can still be for many therapists to consistently get clients?

Yeah. Honestly, that’s probably been one of the biggest surprises for me and something I’ve really noticed a change in over the last few years, even since the time that I went back to school to become a therapist. We hear so much, over and over, how much need there is, and that is definitely real, but it doesn’t seem to translate into people actually booking sessions.

So I think there’s a sort of this missing middle area between the need for help and people actually reaching out. And what I’m really noticing is that, recognizing you need support and being in a place where you can access that are two very different things and there’s. So many layers in between, like emotional, financial, logistical. So someone might know they’re struggling and know they want support, but then it’s like, where do I start? Can I afford this? What if the person’s not a good fit? What if I open up and then don’t have the support to continue and now I’ve shared, my vulnerabilities with a stranger.

So even the first step, like sending an email or booking a consult. It can take a surprising amount of energy, and especially if someone’s already overwhelmed or burnt out. I also think there’s just more options now than there used to be. Like people are turning to AI and apps and social media content even. Sometimes just as a way to understand themselves and sometimes as an actual substitute for therapy, which I think those things can have value, but they can also create this sense of maybe I’m just going to manage this on my own, which then can delay the shift into actually working with a person. So it’s definitely not a lack of need. I think it’s just that path from I need help to I’m sitting in a session with a therapist is so much more complex than we tend to acknowledge. So definitely as a new therapist I see the gap for sure. Yeah.

I agree with you and you mentioned the path, and that’s something I talk about in the Passive Practice as well, the client’s path of really understanding their journey to therapy. And I always say seeking professional help, whether it’s a therapist or some other professional help, is usually stage four of the process.

Usually we try to manage it on our own, right? Can we find free resources or low cost resources or different type of strategies to be able to manage whatever that particular problem is. It’s usually like a last resort when someone is seeking help from a professional and. I even just think of my own experience when I was in my BSW. I was experiencing anxiety and really I could have saw a therapist and maybe I should have, but I actually opted to go for self-help books and, sit home and navigate that with myself, right? See if I can overcome those anxiety related issues. And I think in many parts it was very helpful as well. So I probably didn’t, need to go seek a therapist, but it wasn’t that I wasn’t experiencing the issue. It wasn’t that I didn’t have the problem. It was that I found an alternate solution for what I either wanted or needed at that point in time.

And I think as therapists, we need to realize that how our clients seek help may not be the same as it previously had been. And even previously, some of the same trends are still true, but it is more of a competitive market with therapists nowadays. Versus, maybe 10, 20 years ago there was fewer therapists, so it was easier to fill your practice than it is today. We are in a competitive market, in my opinion.

Yeah, absolutely. There’s no doubt about that. And I think a lot of it has to do with an individual’s circumstance, like what else is going on in their life too, like for people who are really socially engaged and have very busy active lifestyles, I think something like a self-help book or seeking help on your own can be a amazing tool.

And I think sometimes the people who most need that sort of person-to-person connection are the same people who aren’t going to reach out and who are going to go to something like a self-help book or a podcast or social media, or AI actually is, a big place we see people going now. So it’s interesting because it further adds to that the people who need it the most are not always the people that are going to seek it. And more and more we’re learning the value of that human connection and the real, j quo that a person can bring to therapy, a therapist can bring to therapy versus some of these other, avenues.

Absolutely. And this is me putting my business hat is always on and I think, as therapists, this is why it’s so important for us to diversify our income and for us to have alternate income streams. And I know we’re talking about a little bit of AI and I know some therapists are like, huh, is AI going to take over our jobs? I don’t think so, because like you’ve mentioned, that human connection that’s always going to be a part of humans. Like we are innately seeking human connection, but it is an additional resource that now is available similar to, like you said, social media, YouTube videos, podcasts or self-help books.



It’s another resource that people have access to whether, we want that or not. So when we’re thinking about creating, services, even in our private practices for our clients, it’s really thinking about where are our clients coming from? Where are they seeking support before they come to therapy? Yes, we’re therapists first, but we can create different programs that maybe we didn’t do previously, but we can start creating now so that we can support our clients even if they never come to seek therapy. That’s my opinion anyway.

Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. I think to be a successful therapist today is demanding more and different ways of thinking on behalf of the therapist. Like I’ve been a therapy user for a very long time before going back to school to become a therapist.

And have used sites like Psychology Today for, many years. And I think the days are gone of being able to just type in anxiety therapists near me and finding a few good options and parsing them out. We’re seeing a lot more people shopping around and comparing therapists, so I really think you’ve got to have a competitive edge.

 I think it’s the rise of AI is demanding and challenging a lot of therapists to get into modalities that AI like an LLM can’t, replicate like the more cognitive models are a lot easier for it to spit out some, challenging your irrational negative thoughts and, it’s forcing us to think outside the box a little bit. And I definitely agree that if you’re entrepreneurial or have an industrious streak and you’re a therapist, it’s your time to shine.

 Absolutely. One of the things I often hear is the reason people won’t come to therapy or less people come to say private practice therapy is because of cost or lack of insurance or like those financial related concerns. I’m curious from your perspective how much do you think, cost insurance coverage access to services impact the ability for therapists to get clients?

Yeah, I think that is a huge aspect and huge prohibiting factor for people in being able to access the therapy they need. I’ve definitely had people reach out who really click with me and are super motivated, and then they find out their insurance doesn’t cover RPs or only covers, a very small amount per year, or a very small amount per session, or only gives them so many sessions. And people get quite overwhelmed, right? It’s hard to deal with insurance companies. And people have to go off and do their own homework. Do they cover this, do they cover an RP qualifying because they don’t all do that. How many sessions with this person can I have. And I think a lot of people, interestingly, are actually looking for a longer term relationship as opposed to, I have an issue, help me fix it in six sessions or less, or whatever, right? People are wanting that sort of longer term support and insurance just isn’t set up in most cases to support people in doing that.

And I think in this sort of economy, Speaking as a person with, a mortgage and kids and other expenses. Like things are expensive and I think therapy’s important, but it’s not always immediately doable or like urgent for people. And it’s different than other services. You sprain your ankle, you’re going to go to physio, you need to, you’re in pain, you throw out your back, you’re going to go to the chiropractor. But mental health tends to get, deprioritized a little bit, when other things come up. People are looking at like their finances, their time and therapy can start to feel like unnecessary, and b in today’s competitive market, like it feels like one more thing they have to figure out, right? Oh, I have to find the right fit for me, and it’s, it’s going to be so challenging, especially working with folks who have, chronic health conditions or burnout or who are neurodivergent. Like the idea of committing to something weekly or biweekly can feel like a lot. So it’s not even just money, it’s also about bandwidth and capacity. And today people are busy.

And then just want to note, like on the therapist side. I don’t know what you’ve been seeing, but I’ve been seeing this growing pressure for therapists, newer therapists especially, to offer sliding scale and pro bono slots which can help a lot with access. And a lot of us genuinely, by nature, by virtue of being helpers, we want to do that.

But it does create this tension because you’re trying to build something sustainable while also seeing that people are struggling and not able to afford care. So it’s this strain, clients are stretched and therapists are trying to navigate how to, meet the need without burning themselves out.

So it’s not the value, it’s not that folks don’t value it. I think it’s just, it requires a level of like stability and resources that not everybody has access to, unfortunately.

I agree with you. And the sliding scale is something that, I hear time and time again. It’s that I have to provide a sliding scale to be able to provide affordable therapy to my clients.

And actually even in the supervision world, like I see a lot in our therapist groups that we’re a part of, people asking for quote unquote affordable supervision. And with supervision, we know we can’t, claim that under insurance anyway. And so as a result, people are looking for that more affordability.

But again, I think this is where we can think outside the box and how can we create programs or services in our practices that help all of that. Something I’ve been seeing, and I’m going to go back to supervision for example. Because I’ve been seeing a huge demand for group clinical supervision, and I think it’s two tiered.

I actually I think it’s multiple tiered. Probably not even just two is one. It tends to be more affordable, right? You can get that 70, 80, $90 supervision versus maybe the 150 to $200 supervision per hour. Two, you get to get connections. We want to develop those connections with people in our community, hear from other people’s experiences. So it gives people that opportunity. And they’re often quite accessible, right? Because, when we think of groups, sometimes they in the evening or sometimes around the weekends, sometimes they’re still during the day. But I have heard of a lot of people do groups in the evening and things like that.

So this is a way, instead of, having to automatically give a sliding scale, can we create a therapy group or a supervision group or some type of group that can not necessarily replace that service but complimented, especially when there’s specific needs that you’re seeing coming in.

An interesting thing that I heard it was a few months ago now, it was in response to one of the online webinars I was teaching. Someone actually mentioned now this is very anecdotal, but they mentioned on a comment on one of my posts that they work in public sector and it’s the first time in 15 years that they’ve been working in public sector that they do not have a wait list. While I hundred percent agree, the cost and insurance coverage is an issue. And it’s something that many people have difficulty accessing.

This one example. And I know it’s just one example. I’m sure I could have a hundred other people say, oh yeah, no, I still have a full caseload in public service. But it’s just interesting that someone who’s always had a wait list now doesn’t have a wait list. Makes me wonder why. Why doesn’t this happen? It could be that there’s, more red tape. It could be that it’s difficult for people to find or access this particular program. There’s so many things I do not know, but it’s interesting to hear that even services that have no cost are no longer with a wait list.



Yeah, that’s a really interesting, point. And I think it speaks again to the general pressure that folks are feeling, which you know, is funny in a sense because when we’re pressured and frazzled, we would absolutely benefit from therapy. But it can feel like the last thing you have time for. And what’s interesting is, we know that the rates of anxiety and depression in general, mental health is not good right now. This should be when everyone is seeking mental health and it raises the question of why, like you said, because I don’t think in the past we heard a lot about stigma and I’m not sure that’s so much of a barrier anymore.

I think in my experience with my own clients, I have a lot of folks who, book it off in their calendar and take an hour every week or every two weeks off work for therapy. They don’t hide it. They don’t shuffle it to the end of the day. They take the time out of their calendar because they recognize the importance of it. So I don’t think it’s stigma and I don’t know if people have just resigned themselves to the fact that maybe they’re just busy. It’s hard to know.

I appreciate the piece on stigma because yeah, I do think that our society in general, I’m sure there’s specific populations and specific areas, depending on where you niche and there’s likely still some stigma with in some areas. But I think as a general rule. I don’t know if stigma is the same anymore. And I’ll just give an example. One of my friends she is a teenager and we were talking one day and she said, kids today, like mental health is a huge part of their discourse. And they’re talking about mental health and mental health awareness more than ever before. Like even more than our generation. And so as a result sure there’s probably specific populations that still experience stigma, but I agree with you. I think that we’re moving away from stigma being the main issue. Maybe more about how people are accessing services for the concerns that they’re experiencing.

Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think in some senses and as you mentioned in some sort of pockets and areas and even generations, there’s lack of awareness of how to actually access mental health services. Which is interesting. I think some people just don’t know where to start.

There was some research undertaken recently that showed that a lot of people assume they need to go through a family doctor to get a referral, which used to be the case, right? A lot of insurance companies used to require folks to get a referral by and large, that’s not the case anymore, especially since COVID.

And this is Canada, a lot of people don’t have a family doctor. So there you go. There’s one huge barrier. And if you’re seeking mental health and you’re in a more acute need of mental health assistance. The idea of going and sitting in a walk-in clinic for eight or nine hours to get a referral from a doctor who doesn’t know you, might never see you again. It’s just not appealing. It’s actually feels, in a lot of cases, I think, impossible for folks. And so even the people who do know that they can go online and find someone, as we spoke to earlier, there is this sort of overwhelm, I think that can, overtake people and, there’s all these different directories and then you’re on Facebook and every, 10 seconds, you’re scrolling, you get another ad for a clinic where you can connect with these people. And there’s different types of therapies and different approaches and, so what’s meant to make things easier? Actually can overwhelm people and just lead them to decision fatigue essentially. And then they make no choice.

I’ve had clients tell me they spent like weeks or months, like reading profiles, bookmarking people doing consults, like thinking about, reaching out to someone and then just not taking that final step. Because they’re just overwhelmed.

And I think it’s interesting, I know you’ve done some webinars around like Psychology Today and creating a profile, and I think that not something that isn’t talked about a lot is how similar a lot of the profiles can start to feel. So you see a lot of the same language trauma-informed, client-centered, integrative a lot of the same, buzzwords used. They’re all important, but they don’t really help someone understand, when they’re looking at a hundred different therapists, what they’re going to feel like to sit with that person, specifically. How are you going to feel after working with this specific person?

And then layer in the vulnerability of just reaching out and sharing something personal with a stranger. It makes sense that people pause there. And I’ve actually wondered too if with the consult culture, if you want to call it that, because pre COVID, I know when I was getting therapy, there were no consults. Like you would just find a therapist, you’d book an appointment, period. That was it.

And this consult thing now where everyone’s therapist and client, by and large want to have a consult. But I also think it does add to this sense of inertia that people have. Because there’s not that sense of FOMO, right? Now I can talk to 25 therapists for free and have these consults and you start with a couple and you’re like maybe I should try a few more. And then you end up not booking with anyone because you’ve met 25 great therapists, or 10 great therapists or whatever it is, right? So there’s layers to it, like everything. But yeah, it’s interesting to think about.

You have so many good points there, even with the consults, like I am pro-consult, but you literally just highlighted a true concern that could happen for some clients. You start out with, oh, I’m going to find the best therapists, and then you find 10 best therapists. So which one do I choose? And then I’m just not going to choose any. So you know that can be challenging.

I also like where you mentioned about, therapist directories and how they can all look the same and it can actually be scary for some clients, like when we’re using a lot of those big language and like more clinicalese type language because they don’t know what our modalities are. And while they might do a little bit of research, and I’m sure there’s some clients who are definitely about learning and want to learn before they go into to all that.



But I would say that could be more on your website. You can talk about more about the modalities you work with from like a in-depth approach. But when we go to Psychology Today, it’s often very therapist centered. Meaning it’s like I come from this modality, this approach, a lot of these big like anti-oppressive practice, integrative, like again, a lot of these words, which our clients is like. What does this mean?

It’s good for other therapists, but therapists aren’t usually your clients. And even if you are advertising towards therapist to be your client. They’re humans too, looking for a specific feel or fit, right? It’s less about that resume type profile and more about, how can you help me with my particular problem or issue. And I think that’s where we go back to being competitive. That’s where the more client-centered profiles tend to be more competitive in the therapist profiles because they’re all the same.

And I just think about when we go to see our doctors, let’s just say that I needed some help with acne or something like that. I need a dermatologist. And so I go to my family doctor and I don’t ever say, Hey, I have some skin issues. Did you do a dermatology rotation during your residency? I just need to make sure before we actually start working together, because I need to make sure that you understand what I’m going through.

We don’t ask our doctors that one, maybe we don’t even realize that doctors have rotations, which they do by the way. They usually use monthly rotations into different kind of specialties. But we also don’t ask that because we just assume that they can help us or will refer us to the right people that can help. And our clients are very much the same. They assume that you know how to help them and that if you don’t, that you’re going to refer them to the right people that can. Anyway, that’s just some food for thought that I was thinking.

Yeah, I think you raise a good point because I think you’re identifying a bit of a sticky wicket for a lot of therapists, which is that we don’t want to sound super clinical and list out our modalities, but at the same time, if writing our profiles and saying, does life feel like too much? Have things been heavy lately? We’re buried amidst. A thousand other people who say the exact same thing. So I think for a lot of therapists, and speaking of inertia, I think there is this like paralysis for us in terms of how do you speak to your target market and not a blend in with every other person who’s got a profile running and B, speak in such a way that nobody can understand what you’re saying and it’s all gobbly goop.

Yeah, that’s a really good point. And I think, it’s interesting one, nugget that I have picked up from my clients is a lot of people go for the therapist who looks the friendliest in their picture and people will say oh, I booked a lot of consults. I booked with this person. I booked with this person I booked with you because you all looked really friendly and you look nice.

And then it’s interesting because when they then meet with people, they’ll say, oh, I met with the, this person seemed really nice on their picture, but when I met them, they weren’t like, they were quite cold. You seem really nice. So I like, so it is really interesting, right? It gives you, it’s quite a bit of food for thought as you said, because it’s it definitely makes you rethink the way that you’re structuring your profile and these directories as a therapist.

So I’m going to tell you a little secret. When I first started my practice, I was actually using my wedding picture now. I cut it so that you couldn’t see that I was wearing my wedding dress. But of course my hair was done really pretty. I did have a strapless dress, but I cut the head right up to the top.

But you can still see that I didn’t have anything on my shoulders. I’d say every second client say they booked me because my picture was one different than everyone else. But they thought it was so inviting, friendly, and they just thought that I would be someone to support them. So they made a comment that it was because of my picture that they booked with me.

I was talking to a colleague and she said, why are you using that picture? And I was like. I don’t know, just because, and she’s go and get a professional photo that is so unprofessional. You’re showing your shoulders. Even though I could tell you’re not showing anything below or anything like that is just so unprofessional. So I felt mortified. So I immediately that day went to a local Photoshop and got my photo done on a white background. I still use it today if anyone like follows me on social media. You still see I’m still using that white background photo today. I have not had one more client comment on my photo since. In any way bad or good, but just basically no one has ever commented whatsoever. But before every second client was basically saying, it’s because of your photo, I decided to book with you.

So the reason I share this, and I’ve actually never shared it on the podcast before, is. Because sometimes we’re like listening to our colleagues and we’re listening to other professionals, and I just want to say that I don’t think that picture looked unprofessional in any way, shape, or form. I would never put an unprofessional photo in there. But because we have this idea of what professionalism is, and it’s this muted white background with us on the front. That means we’re looking the same as everyone else. If I look back at it now, like through my business coaching lens, the reason I stood out and filled up my practice super quick is because I looked different than everybody else. I had a different photo. I wasn’t the same. I stood out, I looked inviting. Again, wasn’t unprofessional, but maybe you know, different than others. That stood out to my clients and it got me clients and I filled up my practice pretty quick. Not saying it’s just my photo, but I think the reason I’m sharing this is we are often pretty critical on what professionalism means.



And this goes back to the therapist centered profile. It’s like I have to share my modalities. It needs to be very clinical, it needs to be using all these big words, but your clients aren’t your colleagues and you don’t need to show up for your colleagues. You need to show up for your clients.

Yeah, I love that. I love that you share that because what it really communicates to me. Is, and this touches back on our conversation about AI. I think people, whether they realize it or not, are looking for a human right. They don’t want, some cookie cutter person who looks like every other headshot that’s up there on Psychology Today. I think they really want a human. And the other thing I notice is I’ve, at various points in different, Psych Today profiles. I have mentioned the fact that I have lived experience with a lot of the things that I work on, and people will mention that. They’ll say, I’ll say, oh, like what brought you in? Oh, I really I saw that you have lived experience, so even above all the modalities and all the experience in the world, if you look like a friendly, warm, real human being and you can relate to people, I think that’s honestly a big part of what brings people in. And I think that there’s something to be said for, harnessing that.

You just made a connection that I think is so valuable that even when people are using AI as for therapy. They’re looking for that human that they’re having difficulty finding. So how can we be found as therapists and be their human?

Yeah, and that’s the million dollar question, right? I think it’s fascinating and I think we can get in our heads and think that therapy’s expensive. It can be very expensive and I think we can get in our heads and especially now in such a competitive market, and think, oh my gosh, if someone’s going to pay, a hundred and x dollars to see me, or 200 x dollars to see me, they’re going to expect that. I’m like, Sigmund Freud I’m going to, analyze them to the N degree and give them, impart all this wisdom on them and in reality, sure. Yeah. That’s a piece of therapy is like leading people to insights and all of those good things.

But I think a lot of people are just in today’s society when we have social media running rampant and everyone’s spending more times on their devices than in front of screens than ever before.

On some level that I don’t think is conscious for folks, they really are looking to connect with another human. And I’m noticing anecdotally that a lot of the referral posts I’m seeing are looking for very specific, like an archetype of a therapist, right? Like I’m looking for someone who’s 45 years old or older female, has lived experience with this, trained in these modalities, does this, and it’s almost like. Nowadays, I think people are maybe in some sense starting to recognize that they’re looking for a very specific type of human. And it’s often are you like me?

And I spoke to a marketing guy once who runs this big marketing company here in Ottawa, and he said, at the end of the day what we’ve discovered in working with all these companies and how to target their audiences, people are asking themselves. Whether consciously or unconsciously are you like me? And I think there’s a lot of value in that.

And even as therapists, when we really think about who our niche is, at the end of the day, it is 99% of the time, our previous selves or our current selves. And even that 1% is usually like someone that we care about or someone that we’ve seen go through a specific issue that we feel really passionate about to solve in the world, like to solve the issues that we have seen our loved one go through. So yeah, I a hundred percent agree at the end of the day from both a therapist perspective and from a client perspective it is, are you like me? But it’s also, can you get me? And if we can present that through our marketing, we’re going to be much more successful than I work with all of these populations. I work with all of these modalities, I have all of this discourse or language that I can use that’s very professional, but probably not relatable. And at the end of the day, it can actually scare some clients away because they don’t care about that. They care about, do you get me, can you help me with this particular issue?

Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. Especially with the number of consults people are doing, it takes a lot to be vulnerable. generally in these consults we’re saying what brings you into therapy? So if someone’s doing 10 consults, they’re telling 10 strangers, let’s bring them into therapy.

And that’s a lot. So I think if we can figure out how to communicate, whether by our photo, our language or, some combination thereof, like you said, are you like me? But also can you understand me or can I be myself with you?

Absolutely. Danielle, this was such a great conversation. If any listener would like to connect, how can they?

Yeah, sure. So I have a website. It’s www.welldanielle.com,

so welldanielle.com.

Then I’m at [email protected].

So to connect with Danielle, head to her website welldanielle.com or email her at [email protected].

Or you can just scroll into the show notes and click on the link.

Danielle, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today and breaking down the realities of getting clients today.

Thank you so much for having me. This was an awesome conversation.

And thank you everyone for tuning into today’s episode, and I hope you join me again soon on The Designer Practice Podcast.

Until next time, bye for now.

Credits & Disclaimers

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